I'd really looked forward to the smoking ban in Dutch pubs, yet I've hardly been in one since it was introduced in July. Andrew hadn't been in one at all since the ban. At least that's what he told me as we sat in the tram on Saturday. We were on our way to Wildeman. Where it's irrelevant, anyway. The smoking ban.
Andrew was confused as to which side to sit. Out of force of habit, I chose the no smoking room. The room formerly known as no smoking I suppose I should call it now. But that's too much of a mouthful. Smaller room. That's simpler.Wildeman has begun stocking a wider range of American beers. Including the odd one on draught. This weekend they had two very different Stouts.
I'm not quite sure what Left Hand Milk Stout is supposed to be. According to the glass, it's won several awards. Doesn't taste anything like a Milk Stout, that's for sure. More like a Stout that's had milk added to it. Which, tell me if I'm wrong, isn't what A Milk Stout is about. "It smells like buttermilk." Andrew said. Just about right. A definite hint of sour milk. Isn't adding lactose meant to make the finished beer sweet, not taste like milk? I just about managed to drink the whole glass, but without any pleasure.
Great Divide Yeti was the other one. A strong Stout. It certainly looked the part, pitch black with a brown head. But the aroma. Pure grapefruit. Call me old-fashioned, but I find citrus hops and roast malt just don't go together. The effect is a like double espresso topped up with grapefruit juice. Jarring. I won't deny a certain morbid fascination with the resulting car crash. I did order a second. In many ways it's not a bad beer at all. Just seriously misguided.
Mike suggested we see what Café Belgique was like smoke-free. Very pleasant, was the answer. As was the St. Bernardus Abt we ordered. If a little too cold for perfect appreciation. You can't have everything. I'm happy with just four out of five.
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Apart from a lot of other Americans tastes, they definitely drift towards the citrus hop varieties. These hops pretty much define anything 'American.' Ranging from orange-apricot to grapefruit to pine needle they are all very pungent.
I disagree with you Ron, I very much think the citrus goes with the roast as long as the beer isn't to dry. There needs to be some sweetness to back all that stuff up. I very much like the Yeti. Its different from most RIS that the American brewers are making in that there are only (yes I know) 75bu's. Most of the other breweries are WELL over 100. It doesn't finish to full making it quite drinkable. They also have an 'oaked' version which is very nice but needs to age to let the oak tannins mellow out.
I agree with you about the Left Hand Milk stout. Not something that I particularly like and definitely not something that screams 'sweet stout' either. If I remember right it has something like 10 different malt and hops going into it. Talk about complexity!! ;)
One of my fav 'milk' stouts that most people haven't tried is the Hitachino Nest Sweet (Lacto) Stout from Japan. I haven't had a beer from these guys I didn't enjoy.
I didn't say that I hated Yeti. I drank a second, after all. It had some excellent parts, just failed overall.
I take Mackeson as the defining Milk Stout. I was surprised how much I liked its combination of sweetness and roastiness.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. Grapefruit and coffee would be horrible. Chocolate and orange is a match made in heaven, and that's what I get when I drink Yeti. Love the stuff.
Welll, since yeast can't take a swing at lactose, and there's little fermentable sugars to take over, after some time, if not pasteurised, many milk stouts do develop a slight lactic edge if there's lactic bacilli around.
In such beasts as Left Hand's, which is a lot denser than (UK) Mackeson, I quite like the sour cream / yogurty edge in the finish, which cuts off any cloying tendency. But that's just my opinion as a swiss cheese-muncher and yogurt mass murderer. ;o)
The Left Hand Milk Stout we get in New Mexico does not taste of buttermilk, so it sounds as if it did not travel well.
I'm not comparing it to Mackeson, BTW, just saying it shouldn't have tasted sour. Of course you are allowed to then point out the brewery should take responsibility for that as well ;>)
Must be that the Left Hand Milk Stout didn't travel well.
I've had it here in Minnesota and it had a nice chocolate milky sweetness.
On the other hand another american Milk from Brau Brothers really came across with the sour lactose that completely turned me off of it. So I can certainly connect with that experience.
Here is one American who loves grapefruit-citrus hops when not overused, but can't stand it when they're used in stouts. They get in the way of my sweet tooth.
As I was there too, I'd like to offer a couple of points. First of all, as I understand it, there are in the US several companies, such as, for example, Shelton Brothers, who scour Europe for interesting beers to import to the US. We have no such thing here and, in fact, get precious little beer from the US. I have never heard of either of these breweries and have no idea whether they have a good reputation in the US or not.
We (both Ron and I) drink predominantly Belgian and German beers, because that is primarily what Wildeman and some of the other pubs here offer. Neither Belgian or German beers sit in the same universe as the strange assortment of US beers that find their way to Amsterdam.
On the one hand, we happened upon the brewer of Moonlight Brewing (Fulton, Calfornia) in Wildeman one evening. He was visiting his daughter, who goes to school here. He brought beers. Ron and I agreed they were some of the best beers we'd tried (we had 3-4 of his beers, all modelled on European styles).
On the other hand, there are the other beers, the ones I call "extreme beers." Many, like these two, are unbalanced, but worse, are just unpleasant to drink. They seem to me like a home-brewing experiment gone amok.
It seems pretty clear to me that there are substantial differences between what passes for good beer in the US and here. Let's take a look at 2 Belgian beers as an example.
Ratebeer has declared that de Struise is the greatest brewery in the world (despite the fact that they do not have a brewery). In Belgium (and here), their beers are almost impossible to get. In fact, when they started several years ago, their beers were absolutly impossible to get.
One of their team shows up at the Ratebeer Low-Countries meeting with crates of their beer which he gives out to attendees. Every beer Ron and I have gotten from him has been infected. Every single one.
We tasted the Pannepot (in pubs) twice and both times felt it was over-the-top sweet, and just not a very interesting beer.
Fantôme also seems to be huge in the US, yet no one in this part of the world thinks much of it.
Personally, I like grapefruit fresh in a bowl, not in my beer. I also don't like beers that are unbalanced -- in either direction.
As Moonlight proved, there are some amazing beers being made in the US. Unfortunately, we seem to get mostly the failed home-brew experiments. We need a Shelton Brothers for US beers here!
Mike wrote:
despite the fact that they do not have a brewery
Whether or not it's correct to call them a "brewery" is just semantics. What matters is that they work independently, create their own recipes and do the brewing all by themselves. The fact that they're not the owners of the brewing facilities they use, is pretty much irrelevant.
There are numerous other brewers working in the same way, in Belgium and elsewhere.
You make an interesting point, however, I think you are confusing "brewer" with "brewery". A brewer is a person, a brewery is a place.
You are, of course, quite correct that there are brewers in Belgium and elsewhere who have no brewery. However, you could say that not all brewers have breweries.
Had Ratebeer called them brewers, I would probably not complain. However, I am not the only one who questions their status as a "brewery":
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/15237
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