Friday 28 October 2011

William Younger's Porter and Stout 1868 - 1869

There were some questions about William Younger's Porter and Stout grists in reaction to the last Let's Brew recipe. Today we're going to look at them in more detail and hopefully provide fuller answers.

Looking at Porters from outside London is a strange experience. I'm so used to the London way of doing things. It makes these beer look quite odd.

I mentioned in the original post that there were two obvious differences with London-brewed Porters:

  1. Younger's were lower gravity
  2. Younger's brewed one Porter and one Stout while London brewers had several Stouts
Looking in greater detail, there are further dissimilarities. The attenuation of Younger's Porter is low, a little either side of 60%. At the same period, Whitbread's Porter was 70-75% attenuated. And at least 7.5% ABV. While none of Younger's is even 4% ABV.

Then there are the grists. Again, the dissimilarities are striking. Younger's grists have more variation and the proportion of dark malts is higher in most cases. Younger's used amber malt but no brown malt. Amongst the London brewers it was the other way around. Younger's Porter was less heavily hopped but its Stout was hopped about the same as the London beers. (Using lbs per quarter to iron out gravity differences. Younger's Stout had 12 - 14 lbs per quarter, The London brewers - if we exclude the Export Stout - 12.5 yto 18 lbs.)

Looking at other details (anal-retentive is my middle name), Younger's boiling times were longer, but their pitching temperatures were about the same. Interestingly, Younger fermented their Porter and Stout differently to their other beers. They pitched 3 or 4º warmer and the fermentation time was shorter by a couple of days. It looks as if they are mimicing London practice in that regard.

One final point. Every single one of the Younger's beers, with the exception of the bottling Porter, was vatted. It's not as easy to tell how the London beers were treated, but I think it's safe to assume that anything with the word Runner in its name wasn't vatted.

Nothing more comes to mind so here are the tables:



William Younger Porter and Stout 1868 - 1869
Date Year Beer Style OG FG ABV App. Attenuation lbs hops/ qtr hops lb/brl dry hops (oz / barrel) boil time (hours) boil time (hours) Pitch temp max. fermentation temp length of fermentation (days) pale malt black malt amber malt
12th Sep 1868 Bg Porter 1046 1020 3.44 56.52% 8.00 1.45 3 61º 69º 3 + 2 92.25% 7.75%
27th Apr 1869 BS Porter 1041 1017 3.18 58.54% 7.69 1.18 2.5 3 61º 66º 2 + 3 43.43% 13.13% 43.43%
6th Feb 1869 P Porter 1048 1018 3.97 62.50% 2.75 62º 67º 2 + 1 67.36% 10.18% 22.45%
11th Dec 1869 BS Porter 1042 1018 3.18 57.14% 7.50 1.46 2.5 3 61º 67º 2 + 3 67.36% 10.18% 22.45%
21st Nov 1868 DBS Stout 1062 1014 6.35 77.42% 12.22 3.47 2 3 62º 74º 3 + 4 81.25% 5.85% 12.90%
28th Nov 1868 DBS Stout 1064 1018 6.09 71.88% 11.43 3.33 20.00 2.25 62º 73º 3 + 3 81.95% 5.63% 12.42%
3rd Dec 1869 DBS Stout 1066 1019 6.22 71.21% 12.76 4.11 2.5 3 61º 75º 3 + 4 76.33% 5.50% 18.17%
4th Dec 1869 DBS Stout 1066 1020 6.09 69.70% 14.23 3.74 2.5 3 62º 74º 3 + 4 73.43% 6.17% 20.40%
15th Dec 1869 DBS Stout 1065 1018 6.22 72.31% 13.33 3.83 17.02 2.25 3 62º 72º 3 + 4 63.97% 6.04% 29.99%
27th Dec 1869 DBS Stout 1067 1021 6.09 68.66% 14.23 3.78 2.25 3 60º 72º 4 + 3 62.47% 6.30% 31.23%
Source:
William Younger brewing record document WY/6/1/2/21 held at the Scottish Brewing Archive
Notes:
Assuming 336 lbs for a qtr of pale malt, 254 lbs for black malt and 280 lbs for amber malt
Fermentation time is fermentation + cleansing.






London Porter and Stout 1865 - 1871
Date Year Brewer Beer Style OG FG ABV App. Attenuation lbs hops/ qtr hops lb/brl boil time (hours) boil time (hours) boil time (hours) Pitch temp pale malt brown malt black malt caramel sugar
13th Jan 1868 Whitbread K Porter 1057.1 1016.6 5.35 70.87% 19.91 5.08 1.5 2 2 64º 79.87% 16.10% 4.03%
10th Jan 1868 Whitbread P Porter 1048.8 1011.9 4.87 75.57% 9.91 2.23 1.5 2 2 64º 55.58% 15.76% 5.25% 23.41%
24th Aug 1868 Whitbread SS Stout 1082.3 1029.9 6.93 63.64% 13.67 5.52 1.5 2 2.5 62º 72.65% 14.64% 3.66% 9.05%
24th Aug 1868 Whitbread SSS Stout 1101.4 1048.8 6.96 51.91% 13.67 6.80 1.5 2 2.5 62º 72.65% 14.64% 3.66% 9.05%
14th Oct 1868 Whitbread xp S Stout 1070.9 1023.5 6.27 66.80% 20.05 6.62 1.5 2 2 62º 79.87% 16.10% 4.03%
18th Mar 1865 Barclay Perkins TT Porter 1058.2 1018.5 5.25 68.20% 15.14 3.69 65.5º 83.41% 13.10% 3.49%
5th Jul 1870 Truman Runner Porter 1056.8 1016.6 5.31 70.73% 10.3 2.64 62º 85.34% 9.77% 4.89%
21st Dec 1870 Truman Bottling Porter Porter 1060.4 1013.9 6.16 77.06% 18.2 5.14 60º 86.06% 9.29% 4.65%
23rd Nov 1870 Truman Country Runner Porter 1062.3 1011.9 6.67 80.89% 13.7 3.53 59º 76.01% 8.21% 4.93% 10.86%
16th Mar 1871 Truman Keeping Porter 1067.3 1016.6 6.71 75.31% 16.5 4.84 58º 89.53% 9.67% 0.81%
6th Jul 1870 Truman Running Stout Stout 1072.0 1020.8 6.78 71.15% 14.0 5.03 58º 88.88% 6.95% 4.17%
4th Jul 1870 Truman Double Stout Stout 1079.5 1022.2 7.59 72.13% 12.5 5.14 60º 89.29% 6.98% 3.72%
4th Jul 1870 Truman Imperial Stout 1083.7 1023.5 7.95 71.85% 12.5 5.40 60º 89.29% 6.98% 3.72%
17th Nov 1870 Truman Double Export Stout Stout 1092.0 1020.8 9.42 77.41% 12.5 5.89 58º 81.28% 14.63% 4.10%
Sources:
Whitbread brewing records document numbers LMA/4453/D/09/061 and LMA/4453/D/09/062 held at the London Metropolitan Archives
Barclay Perkins brewing record document number ACC/2305/01/546 held at the London Metropolitan Archives
Truman brewing record document number B/THB/C/72 held at the London Metropolitan Archives
Notes:
Assuming 336 lbs for a qtr of pale malt, 254 lbs for black malt and brown malt

3 comments:

Arctic Alchemy said...

One of the challenges to brewing these Scottish recipes for me is getting an attenuation percentage in the 50's and 60's without causing other problems. take for example the 21/4/1869 , OG 1.042 to 1.018 and pitching at 61 degrees and warming to 69 degrees , that would be a very sweet finishing albeit malty session and the regiment with a modern yeast would be difficult, probably more like 1.006 fg which would have a profound impact on mouth feel and finish.

Kristen England said...

Artic,

A lot of it has to do with the ingredients, mash and yeast. At 45% Amber malt you'll have a good amount of non-fermentable extract. A higher mash temp helps along the same way and knocking the yeast down keeps things where you want them. They had it all down to a science of when and were these beers where to end up.

Give it a shot based on the percentages alone. Mash at 156+ for 2 hours. You'll see your FG is quite more than you'd think. Also, its important to choose a yeast that isn't highly attenuative if you can't knock the yeast down as they do (eg beat).

mrbowenz said...

Gotcha Kristen,

Used to working with my house strain ( Fulller's 1968) , and I didn't run this through on percentages of non-fermentables, I do like pitching in the lower 60's on most ales, akin to John Keeling's advice to pitch low ,hold then gradually warm, which enhances malt presence in that strain, but also attunates like a champion....it also didn't help that I made that post at 2:45 this morning before my coffee- just so excited by all these new Scottish ramblings Ron is on to : )
Thanks for the advice !