Fullers vs Youngs Porter and Stout grists in the early 1930s

There’s a lot more malt fun in the next set: Porter and Stout. Which were the grists where there was the most room for variation. At least when it came to malts.

The classic London Black Beer grist was a combination of pale, brown and black malt. With sometimes some amber thrown in, especially in the posher Stouts. Whereas in the rest of England brewers had mostly switched to just pale and black malt by the middle of the 19th century.

The big London brewers like Barclay Perkins and Whitbread, were very faithful to brown malt, continuing to use it even after WW II. But neither Fullers nor Youngs were.

Fullers went for the minimalist option, with black as the only coloured malt. Youngs opted for something more complex. Using amber and crystal malt in addition. Which bumps the coloured malt percentage to almost 25%. And leaves the percentage of malt much higher than at Fullers.

Youngs used the cheaper mild malt as base, rather than pale malt. I can’t say that I blame them. With all that coloured malt. Who was going to notice the base malt?

Oatmeal Stouts were all the rage between the wars. We can see both brewers were packaged at least some Stout as Oatmeal from the presence of oats. A purely token amount in the case of Fullers. Something more substantial at Youngs. A quantity that probably had a noticeable effect on the character of the beer.

Instead, the Fullers beers have a decent amount of flaked maize. Just like all Fullers other beers.

Two sugars at each of the breweries, If you’ve been paying attention, obviously different ones. Special Dark and two types of caramel (Carameline and London caramel) at Fullers. So many different types of caramel they had in the past. It’s a nightmare.

At Youngs, it was bog-standard No. 3 invert and enigmatic "OM”.  From the name, I suspect the latter was a sugar specifically designed for Oatmeal Stout. Who knows what it might have contained.

And what about the hops? Pretty much the same as all the other beers. That is, two types of English hops from the two most recent seasons.

Unlike in modern brewing, back in the day it wasn’t unusual to use the same hops in every beer. Or to use the same mashing scheme for every beer. Basically, they didn’t piss around as much as modern brewers do. 

Fullers vs Youngs Porter and Stout grists
Brewer	Beer	Style	pale malt	mild malt	black malt	amber malt	crystal malt	total malt
Fullers	P	Porter	63.46%		9.20%			72.66%
Fullers	BS	Stout	63.46%		9.20%			72.66%
Youngs	P	Porter		58.44%	7.79%	9.74%	5.84%	81.81%
Youngs	S	Stout		58.44%	7.79%	9.74%	5.84%	81.81%
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

Fullers vs Youngs Porter and Stout adjuncts and sugars
Brewer	Beer	Style	flaked maize	oats	no. 3 sugar	Sp Dark	OM	caramel	total sugar
Fullers	P	Porter	8.28%	0.66%		13.49%		4.91%	18.40%
Fullers	BS	Stout	8.28%	0.66%		13.49%		4.91%	18.40%
Youngs	P	Porter		7.23%	5.19%		5.19%		10.38%
Youngs	S	Stout		7.23%	5.19%		5.19%		10.38%
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

Fullers vs Youngs Porter and Stout hops
Brewer	Beer	Style	hop 1	hop 2
Fullers	P	Porter	English 1929	English 1930
Fullers	BS	Stout	English 1929	English 1930
Youngs	P	Porter	Kent 1930 CS	Sussex 1931
Youngs	S	Stout	Kent 1930 CS	Sussex 1931
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

Young's fixed

Now I'm back from the USA, I've been able to fix a couple of Young's recipe posts. Namely Young's Best Malt Ale and Young's Celebration Ale.

Apologies for the delay, but I had no way of fixing them while I was out of the country.

Fullers vs Youngs Pale Ale processes in the early 1930s

We see the same differences in the processes as for the other styles. That is, the boiling times are shorter at Fullers. 30 minutes for the first copper and 15 minutes or the second.

The Fullers Pale Ales were all pitched a few degrees warmer. Though, unlike at Youngs, the temperature was different for each beer. The maximum temperatures are pretty similar, at around 70º F.

There’s quite a difference in the length of fermentation. Which was five days at Fullers but eight days at Youngs.

Fullers vs Youngs Pale Ale processes
Brewer	Beer	boil time (hours)		Pitch temp	max. fermen-tation temp	length of fermen-tation (days)
Fullers	AK	1.5	1.75	62º F		5
Fullers	XK	1.5	1.75	63º F	66º F	5
Fullers	PA	1.5	1.75	60.5º F	70º F	5
Youngs	PAB	2	2	59º F	69º F	8
Youngs	PA	2	2	59º F	69º F	8
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

 

 

 

 

Let's Brew Wednesday - 1932 Youngs X Ale

Here's yet another Mild recipe for you lucky devils. That's three already this month.

Parti-gyled with Ale was the stronger X Ale. Which looks like it was a 5d per pint beer. One of the most popular types of beer.

Unlike some other London brewers, such as Barclay Perkins and Fullers, Young didn’t brew a 6d Mild Ale. These beers had an OG of around 1043º. It wasn’t uncommon for London brewers to have three Mild Ales, in the 4d, 5d and 6d classes. I’m not sure why Young didn’t brew a beer in the strongest class.

Obviously, the recipe is exactly the same as the Ale, except that there’s a bit more of everything.

As in the case of Ale, there might well have been colour correction at racking time. 

1932 Youngs X Ale
pale malt	1.50 lb	24.94%
mild malt	3.50 lb	58.19%
crystal malt 60 L	0.50 lb	8.31%
malt extract	0.125 lb	2.08%
No. 3 invert sugar	0.33 lb	5.49%
caramel 1000 SRM	0.06 lb	1.00%
Fuggles 105 min	1.00 oz
Fuggles 30 min	1.00 oz
OG	1034
FG	1006
ABV	3.70
Apparent attenuation	82.35%
IBU	26
SRM	13
Mash at	152º F
Sparge at	170º F
Boil time	105 minutes
pitching temp	59º F
Yeast	WLP002 English Ale

Fullers vs Youngs Pale Ale grists in the early 1930s

Pale Ales are a little different from the first two types. Very little differences, in the case of the malts.

There’s nothing but bas malt in all the beers. Though, in the case of Youngs, that took three forms: pale, PA and enzymic malt. Fullers Pale Ales also contained 15% flaked maize. Once again, the total malt content was higher at Youngs.

There’s no overlap at all in the sugars between the two beers. Fullers Pale Ales went for three types: No. 2 invert, glucose and intense. I assume the latter was a type of caramel.

At Youngs, there were just two types, a little malt extract and quite a lot of No. 1 invert sugar. No. 1 or No. 2 invert are exactly the type of sugar you would expect to find in a Pale Ale.

There’s a lot more sugar in the Youngs beers than the Fullers ones. Around four times as much. Then again, they weren’t using any adjuncts.

All English hops again. And all from the two most recent seasons. So pretty fresh. As you would expect in a hop-focussed beer,

What varieties were these hops? It’s difficult to say. The East Kents are probably Goldings or something similar. I wouldn’t really like to say around the rest. But just the law of averages suggests that at least some were Fuggles.

Fullers vs Youngs Pale Ale grists
Brewer	Beer	pale malt	PA malt	enzymic malt	total malt	flaked maize
Fullers	AK	81.80%			81.80%	14.72%
Fullers	XK	81.80%			81.80%	14.72%
Fullers	PA	81.80%			81.80%	14.72%
Youngs	PAB	27.86%	54.64%	3.21%	85.71%
Youngs	PA	27.86%	54.64%	3.21%	85.71%
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

Fullers vs Youngs Pale Ale sugars
Brewer	Beer	malt extract	no. 1 sugar	no. 2 sugar	glucose	intense	total sugar
Fullers	AK			2.18%	1.09%	0.20%	3.47%
Fullers	XK			2.18%	1.09%	0.20%	3.47%
Fullers	PA			2.18%	1.09%	0.20%	3.47%
Youngs	PAB	2.86%	11.43%				14.29%
Youngs	PA	2.86%	11.43%				14.29%
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

Fullers vs Youngs Pale Ale hops
Brewer	Beer	hop 1	hop 2	hop 3
Fullers	AK	English 1929	English 1930
Fullers	XK	English 1929	English 1930
Fullers	PA	English 1929	English 1930
Youngs	PAB	EK 1931	Kent 1930	Kent 1930
Youngs	PA	EK 1931	Kent 1930	Kent 1930
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

Fullers vs Youngs Strong Ale processes

Another tabletastic post. Why has it been fun time on the blog recently? Because I'm travelling. Or will be when this is published. I'm in Tennessee at Little Animals in Johnson City.

At the moment, I'm bashing out blog posts to cover the 13 days that I'll be away. Only three more to go after this one. I think I can stretch out some tables to cover those.

There’s an even bigger difference in the boil times than with the Mild Ales. Being 30 minutes for the first copper and 45 minutes for the second. The Fullers beers are still pitched warmer, but it’s only a couple of degrees.

The length of fermentation is identical for all the beers: eight days. 

Fullers vs Youngs Strong Ale processes
Brewer		boil time (hours)		Pitch temp	max. fermentation temp	length of fermentation (days)
Fullers	BO	1.5	1.75	61º	71º	8
Fullers	OBE	1.5	1.75	60º	71º	8
Youngs	XXX	2	2.5	59º F	67º F	8
Youngs	XXXX	2	2.5	59º F	70.5º F	8
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

Fullers vs Youngs Strong Ale grists

Now, it's the turn of Strong Ales.

It’s a similar story to the Mild Ales. With no overlap of the ingredients in the grist.

Once again, Fullers go for just pale malt and flaked maize. While at Youngs, the choice was mild and crystal malt. And their overall malt percentage was higher.

Unsurprisingly, as they were parti-gyled with them, the grists look very like those of the Mild Ales.

When we come to the sugars, there is a difference. Youngs Strong Ales don’t include any malt extract, as their Milds did.

Fullers went with glucose and intense, while Youngs opted for No. 3 invert and caramel. Just like in the Mild Ales.

The hops are exactly the same as those in the Milds. That is, all English and from the last two seasons.

Fullers vs Youngs Strong Ale grists
Brewer	Beer	pale malt	mild malt	crystal malt	total malt	flaked maize
Fullers	BO	81.08%			81.08%	14.10%
Fullers	OBE	81.08%			81.08%	14.10%
Youngs	XXX		78.80%	7.39%	86.19%
Youngs	XXXX		78.80%	7.39%	86.19%
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

Fullers vs Youngs Strong Ale sugar
Brewer	Beer	no. 3 sugar	glucose	intense	caramel	total sugar
Fullers	BO		3.13%	1.69%		4.82%
Fullers	OBE		3.13%	1.69%		4.82%
Youngs	XXX	13.13%			0.67%	13.81%
Youngs	XXXX	13.13%			0.67%	13.81%
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

Fullers vs Youngs Strong Ale hops
Brewer	Beer	hop 1	hop 2
Fullers	BO	English 1929	English 1930
Fullers	OBE	English 1929	English 1930
Youngs	XXX	Kent 1930 CS	Kent 1930
Youngs	XXXX	Kent 1930 CS	Sussex 1931
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

Let's Brew - 1932 Youngs Ale

As it's May, here's another Mild recipe. Obviously, the result of my recent trip to the Young's archive in London.

One of the hangovers from restrictions in WW I was a type of low-gravity Mild, usually called simply Ale or 4d Ale. The latter name referring to its price per pint. They were generally brewed to the minimum economically gravity of 1027º.

Such beers were generally brewed in smaller quantities than standard X Ale. Which at most breweries was the biggest seller.

The base malt consisted of mostly mild malt along with some pale malt made from Californian barley. The latter presumably there for its diastatic power. In addition, there’s an amount of crystal malt. I’m guessing to add body.

Other than that, there are three types of sugar. But no adjuncts, which were common at most breweries. The malt extract was there to add extra enzymes. The No. 3 invert for colour and flavour. And the caramel purely for colour. There may also have been extra caramel added at racking time for colour correction.

There were two types of Kent hops, both from the 1930 season. I’ve guessed that both were Fuggles. 

1932 Youngs Ale
pale malt	1.50 lb	24.94%
mild malt	3.50 lb	58.19%
crystal malt 60 L	0.50 lb	8.31%
malt extract	0.125 lb	2.08%
No. 3 invert sugar	0.33 lb	5.49%
caramel 1000 SRM	0.06 lb	1.00%
Fuggles 105 min	1.00 oz
Fuggles 30 min	0.75 oz
OG	1028
FG	1004
ABV	3.18
Apparent attenuation	85.71%
IBU	24
SRM	11
Mash at	152º F
Sparge at	170º F
Boil time	105 minutes
pitching temp	59º F
Yeast	WLP002 English Ale

Fullers vs Youngs Mild Ale processes in the early 1930s

Some processes next. The boil times are a little shorter at Fullers. No crazily large difference. But one all the same.

The Fullers Milds were pitched quite a bit warmer than those from Youngs. But they weren’t allowed to rise as much in temperature as at Youngs. The rise was 4º to 5º at Fullers compared with 7º to 10º at Youngs.

Fermentation time was also a couple of days shorter at Fullers. But it wasn’t just the length of fermentation that differed. The methods diverged, too. As fullers were using the dropping system. Where the fermentation started in tall round vessels and the wort was transferred after a day or so to a shallow flat vessel where the process completed. While at Youngs they just used simple open fermenters.

Fullers vs Youngs Mild Ale processes
Brewer	Beer	boil time (hours)		Pitch temp	max. fermen-tation temp	length of fermen-tation (days)
Fullers	X	1.5	1.75	63º F	67º F	6
Fullers	XX	1.5	1.75	62.5º F	67.5º F	6
Youngs	A	2	2	59º F	69º F	7
Youngs	X	1.75	1.75	59º F	66º F	9
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

 

Fullers vs Youngs Mild Ale grists in the early 1930s

Let’s take a look at each of the types of beer in more detail. Starting with Mild Ales.

The grists are quite different. Fullers only contains one malt, base pale malt. While Youngs contains three: pale, mild and crystal. And a higher malt content in total.  Only the Fullers Milds contain an adjunct, in the form of flaked maize.

The theme of looking very different continues with the sugars. Where they have no elements in common. Though I suppose that “intense” was a type of caramel. No. 3 invert is the sugar you would expect to find in a Mild. A combination of glucose and caramel, as in Fullers beers, might get you close.

On the other hand, the hops look very similar. Two types of English in each. And, in both cases, from the most recent season and the one before that.

Fullers vs Youngs Mild Ale grists
Brewer	Beer	Style	pale malt	Mild malt	crystal malt	total malt	flaked maize
Fullers	X	Mild	80.84%			80.84%	14.03%
Fullers	XX	Mild	80.84%			80.84%	14.03%
Youngs	A	Mild	16.82%	64.86%	7.21%	88.89%
Youngs	X	Mild	22.49%	58.48%	9.00%	89.97%
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

Fullers vs Youngs Mild Ale sugar
Brewer	Beer	malt extract	no. 3 sugar	glucose	intense	caramel	total sugar
Fullers	X			3.56%	1.57%		5.13%
Fullers	XX			3.56%	1.57%		5.13%
Youngs	A	2.40%	8.01%			0.70%	10.41%
Youngs	X	3.00%	6.00%			1.03%	9.00%
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.

Fullers vs Youngs Mild Ale hops
Brewer	Beer	hop 1	hop 2
Fullers	X	English 1929	English 1930
Fullers	XX	English 1929	English 1930
Youngs	A	Kent 1930 CS	Kent 1930
Youngs	X	Kent 1930 CS	Sussex 1931
Sources:
Fullers brewing record held at the brewery.
Young's brewing record held at Battersea Library, document number YO/RE/1/1.