tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post6358714651807134604..comments2024-03-28T13:20:29.156-07:00Comments on Shut up about Barclay Perkins: The increasing popularity of Lager-beer in North AmericaRon Pattinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-74861471070068008782014-05-06T15:39:22.930-07:002014-05-06T15:39:22.930-07:00Pivni -
I don't doubt that Czech brewers decoc...Pivni -<br />I don't doubt that Czech brewers decoct, as - a) there is the legal requirement and b) in svelte beers a deep golden colour is usually wanted.<br />However, in Germany, where a paler, straw colour is usually wanted in Pils, I suspect that a Hoch-Kurz or infusion mash would often be preferred.Rodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-75514993122376857872014-05-05T10:30:49.261-07:002014-05-05T10:30:49.261-07:00"But how many of the big industrial brewers s..."But how many of the big industrial brewers still decoct?"<br /><br />Pretty much all of them do here, at least for some of their beers. In fact, one of the conditions for PGI České Pivo is that the beer be decocted.Pivní Filosofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883511608403454943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-42194626822369207962014-05-05T07:44:57.595-07:002014-05-05T07:44:57.595-07:00I addressed some of this early history in my 2000 ...I addressed some of this early history in my 2000 Zymurgy article, "Revival of the Classic American Pilsner." https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/1298/SOzym00-Pilsner.pdf<br />Jeff Rennernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-6495082124025963492014-05-05T04:05:45.537-07:002014-05-05T04:05:45.537-07:00Ed is, I am sure, correct that all these comments ...Ed is, I am sure, correct that all these comments are pre-Pasteur in their failure to recognise the true role of yeast: Ure was writing in the 1820s-1830s, and Liebig was notorious in refusing to acknowledge the work of Theodor Schwann, work which Pasteur later confirmed: but I note these extracts were written three years before Pasteur published Etudes sur la Biere, which is why, presumably, from a scientific point of view they're full of bollocks.Martyn Cornellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16843357962176591317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-43605132577550035132014-05-04T15:09:42.893-07:002014-05-04T15:09:42.893-07:00Ron, this makes it clear that the writer experienc...Ron, this makes it clear that the writer experienced ale in a warmer condition than lager:<br /><br />"That this is due to the corresponding advance of the quality and condition of lager-beer over that of ale we are disposed stoutly to deny; for it is the rather due to the cold temperature at which, in the case of lager-beer, it is a necessity that it should be sent out".<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-51411801907014262032014-05-04T11:42:35.402-07:002014-05-04T11:42:35.402-07:00Lager ferments at around 8 - 10 C, as opposed to n...Lager ferments at around 8 - 10 C, as opposed to non-lager beer which ferments at around 18 - 20 C.<br /><br />This produces two effects -<br />1st, less CO2 is dissolved in the fermenting ale gyle than in the lager gyle.<br />2nd, ale fermentation takes place over a shorter period of time, and is therefore more vigorous.<br />It follows therefore that in a fermenting ale gyle, there are far stronger currents of CO2 streaming up the fermenting vessel, carrying yeast with them, up to the top, than there would be in a lager gyle.<br /><br />That is why much of the ale yeast sits on the top of the fermenting gyle, whilst the equivalent lager yeast tends to sit in the bottom of the tank.<br /><br />NB - you absolutely do get a yeast scum on the top of fermenting lager, and ale yeast absolutely does sink to the bottom of the tank, especially once fermentation starts to slow.<br /><br />For these reasons, I tend to avoid the terms "top" and "bottom fermentation -to me "warm" and "cold" are preferable.<br />Rodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-32977493367106556052014-05-04T09:17:47.262-07:002014-05-04T09:17:47.262-07:00If I remember rightly Liebig was a very respected ...If I remember rightly Liebig was a very respected brewing chemist that unfortunately held resolutely to the theory that fermentation was entierly a chemical reaction, with yeast acting as some sort of catalyst. Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-23868887369018759092014-05-04T05:11:29.572-07:002014-05-04T05:11:29.572-07:00I am finding lots of references to beer being serv...I am finding lots of references to beer being served with shards of ice on a plate before, say, 1820. Also it was being stored in cellars not to keep it cool so much as to keep it below the frost line in up insulated buildings. In our town brick and stone buildings are only common after 1840. So am not sure the pattern of serving beer in North America before a certain point is well understood.Alanhttp://agoodbeerblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-37621111084773448062014-05-04T03:08:12.826-07:002014-05-04T03:08:12.826-07:00Gary,
"Ales then were consumed evidently in ...Gary,<br /><br />"Ales then were consumed evidently in a less chilled state than lager, probably in a state similar to how cask beer is consumed in England today." I don't think that's true. It's clear than American Ales were already very different to British ones. One of those differences was the serving temperature.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-1429351489175630992014-05-04T00:46:50.179-07:002014-05-04T00:46:50.179-07:00Interesting. Almost all craft keg ale is partly l...Interesting. Almost all craft keg ale is partly lager, really, since almost all receives a period of cold conditioning.<br /><br />It's true Ron that bottom fermentation can throw a yeast layer on the wort but it will sink under the normal conditions of bottom fermentation; an ale ferment won't, in part due to the different flocculating characteristics of much (not all) ale yeast but also because the ale ferment is not as prolonged so there isn't as much time to allow its yeast to sink (which it will ultimately given enough time, as anyone can see from most bottle-conditioned beers). <br /><br />He misses the one essential difference between the two forms which is that warmer ale temperatures tend to produce more esters than a lager ferment and second, much pale lager produces sulphides that often lend a rotten egg smell to the beer. It reduces with the conditioning period but to this day much quality lager (a paradox?) has this characteristic. It is possible ales fermented with equally pale malts would produce the same effect but most ales were (or IMO) on average produced with darker malts and the darker the malt, the fewer the precursors that cause the hydrogen sulphide production.<br /><br />Finally though, it is the temperature of consumption that made the difference (and less acidity in the beer in the summer) which is useful to know. Ales then were consumed evidently in a less chilled state than lager, probably in a state similar to how cask beer is consumed in England today.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.com