tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post4932874935846820985..comments2024-03-28T06:20:10.699-07:00Comments on Shut up about Barclay Perkins: Ind Coope AKKRon Pattinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-63616837560453329412013-01-23T01:29:48.091-08:002013-01-23T01:29:48.091-08:00Martyn, I've a price list from 1889 with the A...Martyn, I've a price list from 1889 with the AK trademark on it.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-74315246778242141962013-01-22T11:34:51.541-08:002013-01-22T11:34:51.541-08:00Martyn, I've seen newspaper ads with it on muc...Martyn, I've seen newspaper ads with it on much older than that. I'll have to check how old.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-17185631043603513902013-01-22T07:44:46.000-08:002013-01-22T07:44:46.000-08:00Ron - I've seen a Rogers matchstriker with the...Ron - I've seen a Rogers matchstriker with the AK brand on it, which suggests before the First World War, but I have no further info about when they adopted AK as a tm than that. Martyn Cornellhttp://zythophile.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-18897043673232935712013-01-22T07:27:42.416-08:002013-01-22T07:27:42.416-08:00Marquis, since other brewers made beers called KK,...Marquis, since other brewers made beers called KK, I can't see Hardy's & Hanson's picking KK and forcing it to mean Kimberley Keg: though I suppose they might have ...Martyn Cornellhttp://zythophile.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-71641817528901305072013-01-21T07:31:50.505-08:002013-01-21T07:31:50.505-08:00[Ron, I submitted this comment earlier but must ha...[Ron, I submitted this comment earlier but must have typed it under your penultimate posting since it went there and not here, so I repeat it below, with a few emendations. Thanks. Gary].<br /><br />I can't explain the AKK anomaly. Maybe it was a mix of an AK and an aged (K) beer that had become weaker through part of the alcohol consumed by bacterial action. The Rogers example would seem to contradict this but perhaps in that case the K beer was strong enough so that its AKK was stronger than the AK.<br /><br />Perhaps it was one of those summer refreshers you read about that were partly sour, mixes of a fresh beer and a hopped aged one.<br /><br />The ankel koyt explanation is interesting but I doubt it is true since AK is a classic 1800's designation. I can't recall ever seeing the term AK used in this sense in any 1700's book or other source. So why would it pop up all of a sudden in the 1800's? Doesn't make sense to me (although you never know and it cannot be ruled out).<br /><br />I have a number of times here mentioned the only 1800's explanation I have ever seen of the term AK, by a brewer writing in one of those mechanics arts publications. He explains in parentheses that it meant keeping ale. Until a better contemporary or earlier source is found, this is good evidence of the keeping meaning since it is the oldest known explanation so far. <br /><br />While it is true that AK was not long-stored, it was conditioned for a longer period than running X ales. That is the important point.<br /><br />Look here how Moritz, in A Text-book of the Science of Brewing, explains this at pp 233-234.<br /><br />http://books.google.ca/books?id=1pxuR8u6LqgC&pg=PA235&lpg=PA235&dq=running+ales+Moritz&source=bl&ots=AqB2i3p75E&sig=cF4RqaoRWosqBdiVMFOqIzzt0vM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6S_9UIP9Fefq2QXr6oDoDQ&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=running%20ales%20Moritz&f=false<br /><br />Even Moritz trips up on terminology since for his "intermediate" beers or AKs - they are clearly that - he calls them mild ales! But his overall meaning is clear.<br /><br />The term keeping and its cognate kept, do not need to imply a storage of months on end. To this day, we use the expression "well-kept" to describe a cask ale that is well-served no matter what the style, and no beer today is stored for very long except by some eccentric American craft brewers. :)<br /><br />Kept meant processed over the required period and AK was often, at least in Moritz's time, kept for longer than X ales before being sent out and served. That meets a test of keeping in English brewing terminology.<br /><br />Gary<br />Gary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-86935945886480871392013-01-21T06:21:08.079-08:002013-01-21T06:21:08.079-08:00I've just looked at Martyn's blog re AK.He...I've just looked at Martyn's blog re AK.He mentioned that Hardy's and Hanson's brewed a keg bitter called KK.I would be surprised if it didn't simply signify "Kimberley Keg" as of course their brewery was in the town of Kimberley and their standard beers were Kimberley Best Bitter and Kimberley Mild.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-36174547928882420332013-01-21T05:30:46.408-08:002013-01-21T05:30:46.408-08:00Martyn, any idea when Rogers started using the tra...Martyn, any idea when Rogers started using the trademark AK? The one on the adverts of theirs I've seen looks like a cask brand.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-73236749102695619782013-01-21T03:42:37.289-08:002013-01-21T03:42:37.289-08:00I've gone right off the "Ankel Koyt"...I've gone right off the "Ankel Koyt" theory in the past couple of years,not least because I can't find any evidence of the use of the term before about 1855, so there's a big gap between the Fleming brewer immigrants to England and the early Victorians. And, of course, and more importantly, there's no evidence for it at all - since I slag others for putting up theories with no evidence to back them, I can hardly support an evidence-free theory myself.<br /><br />Yes, Rogers used AK as its trademark - IIRC, Barnard talks about Rogers' AK in his write-up of his visit there.Martyn Cornellhttp://zythophile.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-2177786156123514872013-01-21T03:36:47.406-08:002013-01-21T03:36:47.406-08:00Beer Nut, that's a possibility.
I've als...Beer Nut, that's a possibility. <br /><br />I've also recently noticed that the trade mark of Rogers of Bristol seems to be AK.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-25092537033321198802013-01-21T02:11:52.478-08:002013-01-21T02:11:52.478-08:00Isn't it possible that AK originally stood for...Isn't it possible that AK originally stood for Ankel Koyt, but the derivation was lost and later brewers simply followed the convention of repeating letters to indicate higher strength?The Beer Nuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14105708522526153528noreply@blogger.com