tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post4448049945789914416..comments2024-03-28T13:20:29.156-07:00Comments on Shut up about Barclay Perkins: Lambic in 1932Ron Pattinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-80074795140646296702014-10-09T03:45:09.521-07:002014-10-09T03:45:09.521-07:00Chris and Dan ABA -
Your comments have added to my... Chris and Dan ABA -<br />Your comments have added to my understanding, as a brewer not a chemist, of how the complexities of the flavours and aromas of Lambic beers increase with age.<br /><br />However, my point, which I originally expressed badly, was and is that the assertion of the author of the original author that the flavour and aroma of Lambic is due to <br /><br />"The high percentage of acids produced esterifies the alcohol during storage and gives the typical aromas to these beers."<br /><br />is bollocks because the sort of reactions that you are describing would make only relatively small contributions to the taste and aroma compared to the lactic acid itself and the esters and phenols produced by the Brett.<br /><br />I didn't mean that he was just wrong, I meant that he is incorrect in thinking that this is the most important source of the distinct flavours and smells of Lambic.Rodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-79988846464316559972014-10-08T21:35:04.268-07:002014-10-08T21:35:04.268-07:00@Rod - Brettanomyces converts lactic acid to ethyl...@Rod - Brettanomyces converts lactic acid to ethyl lactate and acetic acid to ethyl acetate, both of which can provide fruity (and in the case of too much ethyl acetate, nail polish remover) aromas. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08407308359032799733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-46993801731764625562014-10-08T08:09:55.615-07:002014-10-08T08:09:55.615-07:00"masteluin" transates into English as &q..."masteluin" transates into English as "maslin", which is/was a name for a mixed grain loaf, usually rye and wheat.Rodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-7650793731554248862014-10-08T03:22:51.393-07:002014-10-08T03:22:51.393-07:00About the 'grain mixed in the field' bit: ...About the 'grain mixed in the field' bit: that was called 'Masteluin' and was sometimes admitted into the grainbill of Koyt.Frederikhttp://witteklavervier.nl/en/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-84933988226337786242014-10-07T05:53:34.359-07:002014-10-07T05:53:34.359-07:00"Acid esterification of alcohols is a common ..."Acid esterification of alcohols is a common organic reaction and as a biochemist I would think it's quite likely some of the lactic acid would esterify a small amount of alcohol. These esters might be similar or different from fermentation esters, but it would likely contribute to part of the aroma."<br /><br />My point is that the aroma produced as you describe would be insignificant relative to the aromas and flavours of the lactic acid itself and, of course, the Brett.Rodnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-64797424371845926902014-10-07T04:26:50.796-07:002014-10-07T04:26:50.796-07:00I suppose that is more likely. I fell into the tra...I suppose that is more likely. I fell into the trap I dislike - that folk in the past were less clever with the available resources. That is why the Ploughman was a hero and not a clodhoppers in the 1300s.Alanhttp://agoodbeerblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-63411271114191447942014-10-06T20:04:03.571-07:002014-10-06T20:04:03.571-07:00Ron,
I've read many current Lambics are pasteu...Ron,<br />I've read many current Lambics are pasteurized and then back sweetened with "ass"partame. I've tasted some and know it to be true but I'm not certain how widespread the practice is.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13633304959830016489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-57863343140956218122014-10-06T16:18:00.409-07:002014-10-06T16:18:00.409-07:00@Rod-
Acid esterification of alcohols is a common...@Rod-<br /><br />Acid esterification of alcohols is a common organic reaction and as a biochemist I would think it's quite likely some of the lactic acid would esterify a small amount of alcohol. These esters might be similar or different from fermentation esters, but it would likely contribute to part of the aroma.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06455287260820454268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-30278854848829447912014-10-06T12:20:05.048-07:002014-10-06T12:20:05.048-07:00Ala,.
the stuff from the 1400's and 1500'...Ala,.<br /><br />the stuff from the 1400's and 1500's gives the proportions of the different grains. Doesn't sound to me like they'd been mixed from the field.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-77783541193707003312014-10-06T11:28:01.935-07:002014-10-06T11:28:01.935-07:00Rod,
I agree that there are doubts about the reli...Rod,<br /><br />I agree that there are doubts about the reliability of this source. <br /><br />Wait till you see my next source. Much more trustworthy.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-64767511094485127682014-10-06T06:24:42.422-07:002014-10-06T06:24:42.422-07:00It's a pity all that unsaleable old acid beer ...It's a pity all that unsaleable old acid beer that British brewers had hanging about in their cellars couldn’t have been sent to Belgium for blending. Barmhttp://refreshingbeer.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-64535833841177866352014-10-06T04:44:48.237-07:002014-10-06T04:44:48.237-07:00I recall seeing a documentary which pointed out th...I recall seeing a documentary which pointed out that sowing mixed field was very common in pre industrial farming. If so, beer would reflect the mix and no one would later separate the grains.Alanhttp://agoodbeerblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-58486544451287895682014-10-06T03:21:54.132-07:002014-10-06T03:21:54.132-07:00Ron -
I should take this article with a little hea...Ron -<br />I should take this article with a little healthy scepticism, as some of it doesn't make much sense -<br /><br />"The high percentage of acids produced esterifies the alcohol during storage and gives the typical aromas to these beers."<br />Sounds like good old-fashioned bollocks to me.<br /><br />"The fermentation methods adopted in the breweries may resemble either bottom or top fermentation."<br />Spontaneous fermentation from wild yeast strains often results in a mixture of top and bottom fermentation, but then he goes on to say they don't use wild yeast any more. <br />Incidentally, Jef V.d.Steen, in Geuze & Kriek, says "Today's brewers ferment their beers by adding yeast that has either been grown in a laboratory or harvested from an earlier brew..."<br /><br />"During WWII vinegar was used to sour blends in place of Lambic? It's clear that the practice pre-dated the war. Surely just adding vinegar to make it sour is cheating?"<br />Yes it is, and the article makes it clear that this was a desperate wartime measure which resulted in beer consumption falling by half. It's lactic acid you want in Lambic, not acetic, surely?<br /><br />Lambic brewing is a specialist field and I don't think the author here has really understood it.<br /><br />Rodnoreply@blogger.com