tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post8624621295604944404..comments2024-03-28T13:20:29.156-07:00Comments on Shut up about Barclay Perkins: Oak and WW IIRon Pattinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-14480622116280828272011-03-20T10:56:03.574-07:002011-03-20T10:56:03.574-07:00I agree with Gary that American oak can enhance th...I agree with Gary that American oak can enhance the flavor of some beers, a long as the oak character is not overdone. <br /><br />I base my view on firsthand experience as well...as one who is old enough to have consumed <i>quite</i> a bit of the celebrated Ballantine (Newark, NJ, USA) IPA which besides its remarkably intense but clean bitterness and its legendary hop aroma, also famously had a distinct note of oak from the storage wooden storage vats in which it was aged. <br /><br />I have within the last 2 months sampled bottles of both the IPA and the Burton Ale they produced and while after 40-50 years in the bottle the hops had faded considerably, the unmistakeable character of the oak remained. Maybe I got lucky with the bottles I've procured, but the beers that I sampled were still very drinkable and distinctive, due in large part to that oak character that remained after all these years (the Burton having held up particularly well).The Professornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-85046423185151234902011-03-19T19:11:56.760-07:002011-03-19T19:11:56.760-07:00Given that most cask English ale was served very y...Given that most cask English ale was served very young, I'm not sure that oak species would matter that much. It normally takes at least two weeks to a month for wood character to be noticeable.<br /><br />Also, given that some degree of astringency was expected in many early 20th British ales (at least if Kris England's recipe results can be taken at face value), a slight amount of tannin might not have been out of place.<br /><br />That said, there are things you can do to reduce or eliminate oak character - but I'll let Ron tell the story.Thomas Barnesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-46783225797873167732011-03-19T16:06:30.559-07:002011-03-19T16:06:30.559-07:00I wonder how many brewers were still finishing off...I wonder how many brewers were still finishing off their fermentations in the "carriage casks" - certainly Batemans were until at least the early 1950s, and this would, surely, encourage "oaky" flavours to come out of the wood.Martyn Cornellhttp://zythophile.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-24386529933184150502011-03-19T04:55:31.662-07:002011-03-19T04:55:31.662-07:00Ron, I'd like to add that experience with some...Ron, I'd like to add that experience with some beers has convinced me that American oak can enhance flavour. The best example are stouts stored for a time in barrels that formerly held bourbon, these are really good. Innis & Gunn issue a number of beers also held in casks that formerly held spirits, one is rum-finished I think they call it, another saw time in barrels that had held Canadian whisky. These also are excellent. I wonder what the 1940's author would have thought of these. <br /><br />He would not I think have liked beers held in plain American oak wood, but probably at the time it was out of the question to consider using casks that had formerly held spirits or even sherry.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-80407750865595726852011-03-19T02:42:02.294-07:002011-03-19T02:42:02.294-07:00Ron, I agree with the writer that American white o...Ron, I agree with the writer that American white oak has a pronounced taste, a good example of it is in American chardonnay wine. Unless the wine is the type cool-fermented in stainless steel, it will usually have a distinctive vanilla/creamy/coconut-like odour, one also noticeable and appreciated in bourbon whiskey. <br /><br />French wood also has a peculiar taste, the classic Cognac taste is largely due to it in my opinion and it is interesting it is never mentioned for use in English beer, probably for the same reason American oak was disliked. True, similar oaks (Spanish) were used famously for Scotch whisky, but these were old casks that had held sherry, perfect for whisky but not for pale ale maturation I am sure.<br /><br />Innis and Gunn in Scotland specialize in a line of beers intended to take character from the wood and I would think they use new or re-used American oak although I don't know for sure. I believe the I&G beers would be examples of exactly what the quoted writer didn't like, but they obviously appeal to many people and the I&G line has done very well. I think, as with American hops, it comes down to what you are used to...<br /><br />I think too it is likely that wood was abandoned finally for real ale due to concerns with bacterial infection and brettanomyces, not with objectionable tastes as such. In other words, the feisty American wood could be tamed I believe, but wood was abandoned ultimately for different reasons. That would be my guess anyway because Scotch whisky today uses such casks and it doesn't taste like Chardonnay. (You need to clean the old staves well and re-char them for one thing).<br /><br />I think I recall a partial exception for porter in that its character was felt not inconsistent with American oak, but it is telling that porter was going out by the time the remarks quoted were made.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.com