tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post6764712686678405661..comments2024-03-29T05:24:30.793-07:00Comments on Shut up about Barclay Perkins: Export Pale Ale Brewing in 1903 (part four)Ron Pattinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-44771218116491672352013-06-12T10:24:41.371-07:002013-06-12T10:24:41.371-07:00I’m not convinced that a brewer would refer to sec...I’m not convinced that a brewer would refer to secondary fermentation as a cask sickness. Doesn’t “sickness” sometimes mean a rope infection?Barmhttp://refreshingbeer.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-25164455541084558582013-06-12T03:20:23.925-07:002013-06-12T03:20:23.925-07:00"I've always thought of Orval as an IPA&q...<i>"I've always thought of Orval as an IPA"</i><br /><br />I agree with you - anybody fancy trying the experiment of taking a full cask of Orval to India by sailing ship?Martyn Cornellhttp://zythophile.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-58662271648718635482013-06-11T12:13:31.285-07:002013-06-11T12:13:31.285-07:00I agree, I was using pale ale broadly. But it see...I agree, I was using pale ale broadly. But it seems too a particularly authentic one given the brett inoculation and multiple ferments it undergoes.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-48060741248653033092013-06-11T12:06:48.138-07:002013-06-11T12:06:48.138-07:00Gary,
I've always thought of Orval as an IPA....Gary,<br /><br />I've always thought of Orval as an IPA. No idea why.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-29691250469215121792013-06-11T09:17:03.024-07:002013-06-11T09:17:03.024-07:00Ron, in thinking further on this excellent series,...Ron, in thinking further on this excellent series, it makes me wonder if current attempts to reproduce an historical palate need henceforth to take in additional considerations, or more methodically.<br /><br />The stocked pale ales and old ales clearly went through a secondary fermentation, sometimes more than one, and likely had a brett or lactic acid element. Even where beers are made to historical instructions and are stored for a considerable time in some way (and often it isn't in wood much less unlined wood), unless they will undergo a secondary ferment from brett yeasts or other "natural" sources other than the primary yeast, I doubt the resulting palate will be true what the Victorians would have known. (I would think Orval may be close though, considering how it is put together. But few historical recreations that I've had taste like Orval, they are usually too "mild" for this purpose. The more time that goes on though, the more I am convinced Orval was intended to replicate a high-class 1800's-style English pale ale).<br /><br />Add to this factors such as aging outdoors for Burton at least and seriatim aging (cask and bottle) for extended periods.<br /><br />In addition, mixing beers - stale and fresh porters and other kinds of beers - introduces a further distinction. This was a carefully practiced art either at brewery or pub until well into the 1800's.<br /><br />Thus, brewing a mid-1800's "Imperial Stout", say, and drinking it not long after probably gives little idea what it was typically like unless long-aged in bottle - sometimes this occurs today to be sure but not too often after extended cask storage. Also, once bottled, some of the strong stouts and ales must have been blended with fresh beer, which almost never occurs today to my knowledge.<br /><br />Perhaps the American wood-aged, strongly hopped beers are closest to what non-mild English ales were like in the 1800's but even then the hop flavours won't be right.<br /><br />Anyone who wants to create a truly historical Burton-style pale ale (say) should follow what E.B. Collier wrote as exactly as possible, including the storage in unlined casks for months at a temperature and with humidity similar to what the winter Burton climate was like, to try to get an idea what the real Burton IPA palate was like. One of the early Journal articles describes its palate as "pungent": no modern IPA and no recreation I know has this in my experience except for certain American beers that had been treated with brett, and Orval again. (There may be some U.K. micros doing similar, I am not sure).<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.com