tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post62995089514703606..comments2024-03-28T13:20:29.156-07:00Comments on Shut up about Barclay Perkins: Hops in the 1850'sRon Pattinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-21114968310540557702018-01-18T10:32:13.519-08:002018-01-18T10:32:13.519-08:00Good few comments there , I've only seen the a...Good few comments there , I've only seen the abbreviation of Cy , or CTY next to Farnham's in brewing records (yet!!), look forward to getting hold of some to compare usage though !!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01359187309563791578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-35172190039202050582018-01-18T06:24:59.606-08:002018-01-18T06:24:59.606-08:00Thanks Ron, that starts to make sense - since they...Thanks Ron, that starts to make sense - since they fell in different excise districts the Surrey "Farnhams" and the Hampshire "Farnhams" would have had to be sold separately, and the Hampshire farmer of the next article confirms that he was in the "Farnham country" district.<br /><br />He seems to be on quite good clay soil, so it makes sense that he's growing a relatively high proportion of the more desirable whitebines (11 acres) versus greenbines (1 acre). But it's plausible that one less good soil the Hampshire growers grew less whitebine and more greenbine. Fuggles is from the greenbine family, so a greenbine-heavy blend would have been more Fuggles-like and a whitebine-heavy blend would have been more Saaz/Goldings-like, and this report confirms that hops were generally not sold as single varieties but as farm blends.qqnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-43619025621811646372018-01-18T01:34:14.120-08:002018-01-18T01:34:14.120-08:00Hi Ron ,
That was the Country Farnham's varie...Hi Ron , <br />That was the Country Farnham's variety <br />Regards<br />EddAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01359187309563791578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-37454604754228009512018-01-18T01:32:41.467-08:002018-01-18T01:32:41.467-08:00Hi qq, thanks for that , I've always understoo...Hi qq, thanks for that , I've always understood that the Town Farnham's were somewhere around Saaz territory in terms of alpha acids etc , with Country being somewhere in the Fuggle range ,<br />Regards<br />EddAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01359187309563791578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-73867484611309266202018-01-18T00:55:21.137-08:002018-01-18T00:55:21.137-08:00Martyn,
also a huge amount of Scottish beer went ...Martyn,<br /><br />also a huge amount of Scottish beer went to Australia. I think Peter Symons has looked into British imports a little, mostly in the context of how that influenced what Autralian brewers produced.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-59177602015615216842018-01-18T00:52:50.266-08:002018-01-18T00:52:50.266-08:00qq,
taking a look at a map, most of the Farnham d...qq,<br /><br />taking a look at a map, most of the Farnham district seems to have been in Hampshire rather than Surrey. Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-84930824511405372212018-01-17T07:34:20.591-08:002018-01-17T07:34:20.591-08:00@Edd My guess is that it's a cow versus beef t...@Edd My guess is that it's a cow versus beef thing - Town/Country are the marketing/brewer names for what the farmers called whitebines and greenbines. That's a pure guess though. Or maybe terroir made that big a difference?<br /><br />It's also worth noting the appendix : https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=q3YpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA407<br /><br />The Surrey Excise Collection contained just 4 "hop planters" in 1847/8, although 1854 saw 110 reported before dropping back to 16/17. That compares to 110 in the Isle of Wight and ~1400 in Canterbury, Rochester and Sussex.<br /><br />There's discussion of the financial stresses of growing in Surrey, presumably the high prices of the poor year of 1854 made it worth while to sell "officially" at market and pay duty, otherwise there was quite an area just being sold under the counter to local brewers.<br />qqnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-83029385635814266292018-01-17T07:21:52.568-08:002018-01-17T07:21:52.568-08:00""nothing in comparison to [Australia]&q...""nothing in comparison to [Australia]" - the export of beer from Britain to Oz in the 19th centuiry is underexplored. Much of it appears to have been No 3 quality Burton Ale, ie, about 1070-1880 gravity, and there was a considerable quantity sent out by Sheffkield brewers. But why?Martyn Cornellhttp://zythophile.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-19015246709569781442018-01-16T14:34:42.535-08:002018-01-16T14:34:42.535-08:00Hi Ron ,
Do we know whether they were talking abo...Hi Ron , <br />Do we know whether they were talking about Town of Country Farnham's ? , as far as I'm aware , the Town Farnham's were the more prized of the two .<br />Cheers<br />EddAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01359187309563791578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-72629032030751772382018-01-16T07:00:50.472-08:002018-01-16T07:00:50.472-08:00qq,
I was sure I'd read something in that sec...qq,<br /><br />I was sure I'd read something in that section about Farnham hops, but I can't find it now.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-84265374035188496302018-01-15T09:10:38.060-08:002018-01-15T09:10:38.060-08:00Also worth comparing with hop descriptions here :
...Also worth comparing with hop descriptions here :<br />http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/seedless-hops.htmlqqnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-59287156689110613972018-01-15T08:23:00.041-08:002018-01-15T08:23:00.041-08:00Err - Farnham is in Surrey, not Sussex. He had a d...Err - Farnham is in Surrey, not Sussex. He had a downer on the Colgates and grapes grown in Sussex, whereas another witness said it was only really worth growing the finest whitebines in Surrey, and even then the economics were not great. The price of Farnham whitebines is claimed by various witnesses to be about the same as Goldings, or a bit more, or a bit less. But probably the definitive word goes to when the committee interviews one of their own, Michael Thomas Bass MP, proprietor of a minor brewery in Staffordshire :<br />https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=q3YpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA365<br />In para 7200 he says they are locally popular in Surrey but tend to stay within the county, Bass had run trials and found that "East Kent" were "very superior" (but if price was ignored they would prefer Bavarians more). They bought 11,000cwt of hops the preceding year, the English at under £5, the Bavarians at 30% premium to that. Bavarians kept much better than Kent/Sussex. 8-10lb hops/quarter for "common beer", up to 18lb for "pale ale and every superior quality of beer"; "strong beers for export do not take so much". Estimated their 1856 exports as 700kbbl worth £1.5m at just under 5lb hops/bbl. Also talks about the export split : "East India" took "a certain quantity" but "nothing in comparison to [Australia]".qqnoreply@blogger.com