tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post622501654772234544..comments2024-03-28T06:20:10.699-07:00Comments on Shut up about Barclay Perkins: "You need style guidelines for competitions"Ron Pattinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-23192488629250317052011-02-28T03:34:37.034-08:002011-02-28T03:34:37.034-08:00It's my experience that broad competition cate...It's my experience that broad competition categories work well when the beers entered in the competition either don't differ that much from each other, when there aren't that many entries, when the beers are made and judged by professionals, or some combination of the above.<br /><br />Conversely, detailed guidelines for contests work better when the contest covers widely divergent types of beer, large numbers of entries, relatively inexperienced judges, and/or amateur entrants.<br /><br />While you might be irked by extremely restrictive "style guidelines" for beer competitions, I don't think that there's any harm in them, as long as they're used just for competitions. <br /><br />Anyhow, competition rules are inherently arbitrary. Look at them in context - both as tools and as artifacts of their time and place.Thomas Barnesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-75086098059286442202011-02-18T14:18:00.819-08:002011-02-18T14:18:00.819-08:00Dog, you're right. I'm a pile of contradic...Dog, you're right. I'm a pile of contradictions. I slag off style definitions, but wrote a whole book of them. Consistency issues.<br /><br />I did have something mildly amusing I meant to say about styles. But I forgot while pouring a Filliers 5 Jaar. Mmm, full of jenevery-goodness.<br /><br />I don't hate styles. I quite like them. Just don't agree with casting them in concrete.<br /><br />This post was my attempt to lighten the relentless historical stodge I've been dolloping into your bowls. <br /><br />Qualities. That's what Barclay Perkins called their beers. Not styles.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-89599386477777805802011-02-18T12:33:41.914-08:002011-02-18T12:33:41.914-08:00The list of 'categories' you supplied are ...The list of 'categories' you supplied are the equivalent of 'styles'. Granted, no IBUs, no SRM, etc., but still a set of guidelines against which the beer is judged. A mild entered in the Strong category won't stand a chance of winning because it doesn't match the 'style'. Same for a Pilsner in the Dark category.<br /><br />If you don't like style distinctions, then you shouldn't spend so much time on dgging up historic recipes for IPAs and Browns, etc. In your mind, a Belgian Ale is the same as a Stout, since the 'styles' aren't necessary.<br /><br />I'm pretty sure even Barclay Perkins referred to their beer as belonging to particular styles. <br /><br />So yes, you effin' do need styles. Lighten up, Ron ;-)The Big Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13065934617657060899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-26314925944297713912011-02-18T08:37:44.688-08:002011-02-18T08:37:44.688-08:00I am personally able to see the difference between...I am personally able to see the difference between "styles" and "styles for purposes of competition."<br /><br />BJCP, GABF, et al have never claimed to be the style police, they have developed categories/style definitions that work for their competitions.<br /><br />The BIAA competition categories you reference are ultimately no different - I see artificial/made up categories.Markhttp://www.alesclub.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-58879387046247720932011-02-18T05:34:54.883-08:002011-02-18T05:34:54.883-08:00Ali, you really think "cask ale" is a st...Ali, you really think "cask ale" is a style? Or "dark beer".Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-86944536488091098202011-02-18T04:48:19.351-08:002011-02-18T04:48:19.351-08:00But what you have listed amounts to a set of style...But what you have listed amounts to a set of style guidelines, albeit rather loose ones...<br /><br />The point of style guidelines is that it gives a consistent set of criteria against which to judge a beer, and to give feedback. Not everything will rigidly fit a 'style', which is fine and needs to be understood, but one thinks about the number of times I have heard someone complain that their beer didn't win as it was placed in a generic grouping with beers of different styles and so there was no real basis for comparison.Alinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-15270862730720528662011-02-16T13:31:59.782-08:002011-02-16T13:31:59.782-08:00It cost money to enter that competition. As CAMRA ...It cost money to enter that competition. As CAMRA competitions are linked to beer festivals they buy the beer off you.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-71765719153758758532011-02-16T11:24:20.131-08:002011-02-16T11:24:20.131-08:00We'll see if the number of categories increase...We'll see if the number of categories increases as the competition grows. They had 750 entries vs over 3000 at last year's Great American Beer Festival (which many people complained about having 140 categories). You're right that categories aren't <i>necessary</i> for beer competitions, they just make it easier. If this competition had as many entries as the GABF, they would have been evaluating roughly 100 beers per category. Seems like consistent evaluation would become difficult when looking at a flight of 100 beers, no?<br /><br />Granted, pretending that there are 140 beer styles is pretty stupid, but I can see the reasoning for splitting up categories the way they do.Flagon of Alehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03961940368880824313noreply@blogger.com