tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post4917771033059138500..comments2024-03-28T06:20:10.699-07:00Comments on Shut up about Barclay Perkins: Austrian Lager in the 1870'sRon Pattinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-84082771791510989532013-01-21T23:30:25.962-08:002013-01-21T23:30:25.962-08:00Anonymous, I've pointed out where the BJCP gui...Anonymous, I've pointed out where the BJCP guidleines are completely wrong many times. The chances of them being changed anytime soon is nil. <br /><br />Even though the Scottish styles are totally fictional, ther's no way they're going to get rid of them. First, they'd look silly. Second, too many homebrewers make them. Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-67906899991557529372013-01-21T22:00:06.260-08:002013-01-21T22:00:06.260-08:00I was just having a discussion about Vienna lager ...I was just having a discussion about Vienna lager and the BJCP and found this post. Eventually everyone reluctantly concedes that there are problems with the style guideline but always fall back on the "its just a guide for homebrewers" argument (then why are there commercial beers labeled as "vienna lager" and "Robust Porter"?) or that "its just about tasting" (then why does the exam test judges on fake beer history? ie. scots are too cheap to use hops) followed by "then why don't you bring it to their attention to get that changed?" (I'm pretty sure higher profile people than myself have already done that). If google isn't lying to me, you and Martyn are the only people out there who seem to be openly challenging their authority. Thanks for calling out BS when you see it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-44548722610289762882007-10-30T09:51:00.000-07:002007-10-30T09:51:00.000-07:00loren, I was going to say Michael Jackson told us,...loren, I was going to say Michael Jackson told us, but I've just checked his World Guide to Beer and he just says amber. So just American stylists.<BR/><BR/>Why was I browsing through the bjcp's website? Know your enemy.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-15722320012417403262007-10-30T09:22:00.000-07:002007-10-30T09:22:00.000-07:00"Put simply, Vienna lagers don't seem to have been..."Put simply, Vienna lagers don't seem to have been as dark as we've been told."<BR/><BR/>Um...who told you they should be dark? Surely not Anton Dreher?<BR/><BR/>I would wager pale orange, at best. No?<BR/><BR/>And you were perusing the BJCP guides? Uh oh...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-78587567044450165592007-10-30T05:26:00.000-07:002007-10-30T05:26:00.000-07:00Bohemia and Moravia were provinces of Austria. Aus...Bohemia and Moravia were provinces of Austria. Austria and Hungary togetehr made up Austria-Hungary.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-86666915233313709372007-10-30T05:11:00.000-07:002007-10-30T05:11:00.000-07:00Yes but is it correct to say they were part of Aus...Yes but is it correct to say they were part of Austria, as opposed to part of the Austian Empire? That's my very pedantic and pointless point.Stonchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15927490011165896353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-36146381272539018042007-10-29T14:14:00.000-07:002007-10-29T14:14:00.000-07:00stonch, Bohemia and Moravia were in the Austrian-r...stonch, Bohemia and Moravia were in the Austrian-run half of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Slovakia was in the Hungarian half. They really were quite separate. I have much better statistics for the Austrian part.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-18799913758530914612007-10-29T13:55:00.000-07:002007-10-29T13:55:00.000-07:00Now wait a minute, Ronbo. Are you sure it's true t...Now wait a minute, Ronbo. Are you sure it's true to say that "Austria included Bohemia and Moravia"? Surely those regions were just part of the Austrian Empure/Habsburg Empire/Austro-Hungarian Empire? I will look into it and get back to you!<BR/><BR/>PS. Just back from Bohemia. I too am Donald Ducked.Stonchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15927490011165896353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-31127027160907140632007-10-26T08:13:00.000-07:002007-10-26T08:13:00.000-07:00Well the problem is that Vienna lagers died out in...Well the problem is that Vienna lagers died out in Austria. I think that maybe one or two brewpubs make one, but that's about it. Using modern American Vienna lagers for comparison is pretty pointless, as these will be brewed using the bjcp guidelines.<BR/><BR/>To me the colour scale looked like a pretty good match with SRM - Porter 40, Pilsner Urquell 3.5, Munich beers around 15.<BR/><BR/>All I'm saying is that the original beers from Vienna seem to have paler than is usually reckoned - both by Michael Jackson and the bjcp.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-880792091208334842007-10-26T07:22:00.000-07:002007-10-26T07:22:00.000-07:00Maybe the colors have just shifted over time. Coul...Maybe the colors have just shifted over time. Could it be due to changes in either malting/kilning technology or just shifts in time on the composition of the grist that is used for beers that are regarded to be exemplary of the "style". I think BJCP are generally meant to reflect the parameters that define the most widely accepted versions of modern incarnations of the particular beer style. A more instructive comparison would be the historical data with some actual modern examples to see if there really has been a shift. Would need to find out exactly what that colour scale is first though.Stephen Laceyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10985763302279648129noreply@blogger.com