tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post4164570547822381597..comments2024-03-28T13:20:29.156-07:00Comments on Shut up about Barclay Perkins: LambicRon Pattinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-8705994638008592922014-10-16T10:13:54.940-07:002014-10-16T10:13:54.940-07:00Here's a bit on Faro from: http://home.scarlet...Here's a bit on Faro from: http://home.scarlet.be/pedroalco/Wijn___Bier/Bier/Geuze/geuze.html<br />Which generally speaking provides pretty accurate information.<br />From Google translate: "Another product is a badge of brewer makes faro. Faro is 50% and 50% old Lambic Lambic wort, pressed yeast by adding candy sugar high yeast. Faro was especially popular at the beginning of this century, but is now much less drunk."<br /><br />Original Text: "Nog een produkt dat een geuzebrouwer maakt is faro. Faro bestaat uit 50% oude lambik en 50% lambikwort, ingegist door toevoeging van kandijsuiker en hoge gist. Faro was vooral populair in het begin van deze eeuw, maar wordt nu veel minder gedronken.<br /><br />It looks like they are saying Faro was 50% old Lambic, and 50% Lambic wort, sweetened even more with candi sugar. Though there are some parts about yeast in there I don't understand...<br /><br />This makes sense to me for a couple reasons. 1 the third runnings of Lamic would have been very weak, but they would have wanted to use it for something, Lambic breweries seem pretty averse to waste. There was also a tradition of blending Lambic to taste with adjucts, both at home and in the cafe. It's easy to see how these practices may have grown into a sort of standardized product that people who wanted sweeter stuff could order without lengthly explanation. Of course, the better you knew your local cafe proprietor, the more his Faro would be made to your taste, or so it seems.etrippnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-52255766801645354592012-06-11T13:08:17.177-07:002012-06-11T13:08:17.177-07:00I wonder about that rye and buckwheat thing. Ther...I wonder about that rye and buckwheat thing. There are sources from Halle (near Lembeek) from 450 years ago that cite a very similar grist to now of unmalted wheat and barley. Indeed, I've never heard a citation that mentioned rye or buckwheat. (Rye was the least common of the Belgian grains, at least by the time of Lacambre. Oats and wheat were everywhere.)<br /><br />I find it a suspicious comment.Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-47793206979512344532012-06-06T05:39:25.844-07:002012-06-06T05:39:25.844-07:00Well,the paragraph I referred to, no. 3276, starts...Well,the paragraph I referred to, no. 3276, starts by advising how to "destroy" the quality of "hardness", and mixing old beer and new half and half is first mentioned in this regard. <br /><br />This will clearly result in reduction, but not abolition, of acidity. Briskness is mentioned later in the paragraph as another benefit. <br /><br />All such mixtures create a sweet-sour taste, I've tried my own at home many times, sometimes by letting it mature using unfiltered beer. <br /><br />Clearly the processes we are discussing are different - the above isn't even brewing - but my point was simply that a sweet-sour taste will come out in both, which some people at the time clearly liked.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-86567203667237949502012-06-06T03:59:12.488-07:002012-06-06T03:59:12.488-07:00Gary, it's not to add the taste of young beer ...Gary, it's not to add the taste of young beer but to liven up the old beer. Not the same thing. It's more like kräusening.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-75657209483248245472012-06-06T03:25:08.562-07:002012-06-06T03:25:08.562-07:00Add the old taste to new beer, add the new taste t...Add the old taste to new beer, add the new taste to old beer - sounds like it ends at the same place, Ron.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-46713286055381017852012-06-05T23:28:22.258-07:002012-06-05T23:28:22.258-07:00Gary, that example is something totally different....Gary, that example is something totally different. It's a way to try to recover beer that has got too old. A completely different idea from blending a small quantity of old beer into a large quantity of fresh beer to add the aged taste.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-51899384098551219342012-06-05T07:51:53.727-07:002012-06-05T07:51:53.727-07:00@Martin - In 1998, I brewed an ale based on the St...@Martin - In 1998, I brewed an ale based on the St Paul's medieval you refer to. At the time, there were no malted oats available in the US, so I malted my own. There is a summary at three years at http://www.pbm.com/pipermail/hist-brewing/2002/010714.html.<br /><br />In earlier posts, I outlined my research and assumptions that I based my recreation on.<br /><br />All in all, it was not a success, as I report, but I may try again with commercial oat malts and a gruit mix.Jeff Rennernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-17367617475815718032012-06-04T06:52:20.435-07:002012-06-04T06:52:20.435-07:00Ron, look at no. 3276:
http://books.google.ca/boo...Ron, look at no. 3276:<br /><br />http://books.google.ca/books?id=f5oDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA603&dq=mixing+old+beer+and+fresh+wort&hl=en&sa=X&ei=67rMT-aID7Tl6gGN45HWCQ&ved=0CG8Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=mixing%20old%20beer%20and%20fre<br /><br />This is a little different than the Belgian description of using old beer in fresh wort before its fermentation, it seems in fact the opposite: using fresh wort to recover hard old ale. But I think the idea is the same in both. I checked Thomson & Stewart and they confirm the addition of old beer to fresh but only after each is finished, in other words. They talk about mixing fresh porter and old ale 3:1 and sending it out or maturing the mix in a sealed vat.<br /><br />I think though all these are variations on the idea to infuse a malt drink with qualities of both fresh and aged beer, a sweet and sour taste probably which died out in England by the end of the 1800's but has lived on in Belgium for some reason. Once again though I doubt whether anyone actually adds old acid beer to fresh wort before fermentation, it just seems so strange.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-66267684752564911552012-06-03T14:11:52.318-07:002012-06-03T14:11:52.318-07:00In my experience, at about 10.5 pounds per barrel,...In my experience, at about 10.5 pounds per barrel, you can't stuff any more hops in a the wort. It's was a 3 bbl brewing of IRST.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-16003275043019770152012-06-03T14:00:55.973-07:002012-06-03T14:00:55.973-07:00Lambic is hopped with oxidized three year old hops...Lambic is hopped with oxidized three year old hops. They want the antiseptic quality of the hop, not the bitterness. The bitterness, at those levels, classes with the acidity of the lambic.Pulsatoriushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06142875877658797467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-80675581658496603022012-06-03T04:48:52.260-07:002012-06-03T04:48:52.260-07:00Renaissance? Positively medieval, as far as practi...Renaissance? Positively medieval, as far as practice in England was concerned - in 1286 the brewery at St Paul's Cathedral in London was making ale with barley, wheat and oats at a ratio of 1:1:4 by volume, perhaps 4:3:8 by weight - so yes, brewers do seem to have used a lot of oats.Martyn Cornellhttp://zythophile.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-2739867129234508682012-06-03T04:38:04.140-07:002012-06-03T04:38:04.140-07:00Ron, also noteworthy is the use of old beer, not j...Ron, also noteworthy is the use of old beer, not just for blending-in for beers to be stored, but in the fermenting tun with fresh wort. Some of the English books from the early 1800's mention this too, it was a way I think to produce an active fermentation, probably used originally in cases where yeasts had become languid. <br /><br />Somewhat similar traditions in general had existed in England, especially the West Country but had died in the U.K. by this period. <br /><br />I think the sweet-sour balance was the key to these beers and the mention of dextrins is interesting given too that secondary yeasts and bacteria tend to use these up prolonged aging. Perhaps once the bugs had done all their work that is when the drinkers added sugar to the glass, a practice Jackson mentioned in his early writings, the sugar bowl and muddler.<br /><br />Very renaissance-medieval indeed and that such traditions still exist in the Brussels area is quite unusual.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-57987268390217727252012-06-03T04:07:50.965-07:002012-06-03T04:07:50.965-07:00> I'd heard before that Lambic and March be...> I'd heard before that Lambic and March beer came <br />> from the same mash.<br /><br />I was told the same thing at Gueuzerie Tilquin last spring, so I assume it's true.Lars Marius Garsholhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15442220825022305581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-36347155360679295192012-06-03T01:55:02.091-07:002012-06-03T01:55:02.091-07:00Interesting, I've always thought that Lambic w...Interesting, I've always thought that Lambic was the pure stuff, Faro was, basically, Lambic with sugar added and Geueze was a blend of Lambics... Was I wrong all this time?PivnĂ Filosofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883511608403454943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-38996142651115325232012-06-03T00:40:23.941-07:002012-06-03T00:40:23.941-07:00Might the barrels be larger? Foudres or Brussels t...Might the barrels be larger? Foudres or Brussels tuns?Zak Averyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10650929798289995172noreply@blogger.com