tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post363541159618341615..comments2024-03-29T05:24:30.793-07:00Comments on Shut up about Barclay Perkins: Courage X Ales 1858 - 1867Ron Pattinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-35635125629004130082010-10-15T09:18:11.475-07:002010-10-15T09:18:11.475-07:00Flavor. Even 2 to 5% is noticeable, but very subtl...Flavor. Even 2 to 5% is noticeable, but very subtle. And a bit of color too, of course. But I agree with you, so tiny amount is a bit odd.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-82625362636528111472010-10-15T09:02:50.474-07:002010-10-15T09:02:50.474-07:00Ron, but I think here the non-pale malt additions ...Ron, but I think here the non-pale malt additions were intended to address flavour also. Black patent might not have been the flavour wanted, and as you know some writers in the 1800's didn't approve its use with pale malt alone.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-82808144710825664542010-10-15T08:55:02.518-07:002010-10-15T08:55:02.518-07:00ealusceop, so what would the effect of the brown m...ealusceop, so what would the effect of the brown malt be?Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-13964616843526990352010-10-15T08:54:17.958-07:002010-10-15T08:54:17.958-07:00Gary, brown malt, in this period, seems an odd way...Gary, brown malt, in this period, seems an odd way to colour adjust a beer. The simplest - and least likely to change the flavour of the beer too much - is some sort of dark or caramelised sugar. <br /><br />If you're going to use malt, black malt is the obvious choice.<br /><br />It's annoying that I don't have more records. I wonder how long they used brown malt in X?Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-88878419747224641672010-10-15T08:53:10.815-07:002010-10-15T08:53:10.815-07:00I see that sugar was used towards the end with bro...I see that sugar was used towards the end with brown malt as well. Maybe finally they hit on a combination of sugar and brown malt for the best combination of colouring and economy. Or there could be other reasons for this combination, but still I detect the trend mentioned earlier.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-31700475582684652052010-10-15T07:58:24.792-07:002010-10-15T07:58:24.792-07:00Nice post. But with so tiny an amount of Brown Mal...Nice post. But with so tiny an amount of Brown Malt, this will definetly remain a blond ale. (for the one of 23rd July, 1867).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-92034773791642653452010-10-15T06:48:58.656-07:002010-10-15T06:48:58.656-07:00Ron, I am not assuming that; I am assuming the con...Ron, I am not assuming that; I am assuming the contrary, that the sugar had and imparted colour. I doubt very much for brewing then they would have used a highly refined sugar even if it existed.<br /><br />Sugar is only used in these beers in connection with pale malt, which by my interpretation, was lighter than the PA malt Courage used. <br /><br />Pale malt with colourless sugar would not have made the beer dark enough. I am surmising that the PA malt, sugar and brown malt all performed serially the same function of working with the (highest quality) pale malt to get the colour right.<br /><br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-70948397091611924672010-10-15T06:12:38.621-07:002010-10-15T06:12:38.621-07:00Gary, you're assuming that the sugar was colou...Gary, you're assuming that the sugar was colourless, which isn't necessarily the case.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-63888846811683727442010-10-15T06:11:14.590-07:002010-10-15T06:11:14.590-07:00Barm, pale malt is a generic term that includes se...Barm, pale malt is a generic term that includes several more specific types, such as pale ale malt, white malt, mild ale malt, SA malt and high-dried.<br /><br />My understanding is that pale ale malt is the highest quality pale malt with the palest most uniform colour. You normally see it used in higher-class, pale beers where the colour is important.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-4588641159068103952010-10-15T06:01:42.346-07:002010-10-15T06:01:42.346-07:00What's the difference between pale malt and pa...What's the difference between pale malt and pale ale malt then? I thought pale ale malt was the best and palest malt they could get for use in the high-end posh beers.Barmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-49235785074283705392010-10-15T01:52:57.524-07:002010-10-15T01:52:57.524-07:00Look at Stopes category "I":
http://boo...Look at Stopes category "I":<br /><br />http://books.google.com/books?id=TikBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA129&dq=pale+malt+%2B+colour&hl=en&ei=4xS4TIGKIovangfJlpTmDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAg#v=onepage<br /><br />Courage's pale malt and PA malt clearly belong in that category, but are distinguished by colour; the pale ale malt is the higher-dried. When Stopes uses the term high dried in category I, he is using it in a special sense as is clear from his next 3 categories. Possibly Courage's pale malt was a white malt and the PA was pale malt in Stope's terms. Terminology varied, but the concept is clear in my view. <br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-43158674250490482272010-10-15T01:39:47.171-07:002010-10-15T01:39:47.171-07:00Very interesting, and I'd add this observation...Very interesting, and I'd add this observation: in the first years of the table, mostly they are using pale malt and pale ale malt. The latter was (somewhat) darker. Then, the same colour was obtained by using just pale malt and sugar. Finally, the same colour was obtained using pale malt and brown malt. There were apparent deviations from this scheme, which may be explained by unusual variations in colour for pale malt (maybe some years it was dark enough) or simple penuries.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.com