tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post3317988939204503990..comments2024-03-28T03:54:26.782-07:00Comments on Shut up about Barclay Perkins: Why tied houses existedRon Pattinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-46504161314938024132015-10-30T03:56:34.577-07:002015-10-30T03:56:34.577-07:00Es,
in most countries beer pubs haven't taken...Es,<br /><br />in most countries beer pubs haven't taken the bottled route, as in Belgium probably because Belgium is unusual in having better quality bottled than draught beers.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-68003861888549090982015-10-29T19:02:31.296-07:002015-10-29T19:02:31.296-07:00"When brewers owned their retail outlets, it ..."When brewers owned their retail outlets, it was much easier for them to keep an eye on beer quality"<br /><br />Has never stopped Guinness sending round their people to check up on standards of Guinness presentation - they used to do it much more assiduously in Ireland which is one big reason why people like Irish Guinness so much, but they're pretty hot on it in the UK these days too.<br /><br />On bottles, the costs can be significant. To take an example, Staffs Brewery in Leek have a swanky new bottling line and advertise contract bottling at 44p/bottle with a minimum of 1000 litres and excluding the cost of designing and printing the labels. The wholesale price of beer in cask might be 80p/pint, so bottling costs are material.<br /><br />There's an interesting comparison with Belgium where the beer culture in "proper beer pubs" is very much geared to having a wide range (100's) of different bottles, and draught is looked down on as just providing keg Hoegaarden etc for tourists. Maybe that's where we might have ended up if it wasn't for CAMRA - you're already getting a bit of that Belgian influence in a lot of micropubs which seem to go big on their bottles.esnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-47062378728190213612015-10-27T08:03:15.730-07:002015-10-27T08:03:15.730-07:00Chris,
it was mmuch easier for Bass and Guinness ...Chris,<br /><br />it was mmuch easier for Bass and Guinness to ship their beer in bulk to breweries, let them bottle it and distribute to their pubs the normal way.Plus it meant they got some of the profit out of the beer.<br /><br />You had to hav e a nationally-known beer and one that didn't compete too directly with a brewer's own bottled beers. I think it also happened with some of the London Stouts at one point. But it wasn't a route most brewers could take.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-19577927033244132772015-10-27T05:56:45.415-07:002015-10-27T05:56:45.415-07:00Gads, that seems complicated (although I could wel...Gads, that seems complicated (although I could well be missing something about transportation and bottling capacities and all that). I'm surprised they didn't just work out a system that let pub owners order up bottles from another brewer at a wholesale price, but I'm sure there was some kind of reason I'm missing. I'd also be interested why more brewers didn't go the route of Guinness and Bass and sell bottles -- maybe another set of topics to add to the giant list for another day.Chris Hansonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-66149656807457095512015-10-27T00:01:10.556-07:002015-10-27T00:01:10.556-07:00Chris,
it was slightly more complicated than that...Chris,<br /><br />it was slightly more complicated than that. Every pub sold bottled Guinness and many either Bass or Worthington. But usually these were bottled not by the originating brewery, but the one that sold them in their tied houses. In that way the receiving brewery at least got the profit from bottling.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-72850883051773574552015-10-26T17:24:01.562-07:002015-10-26T17:24:01.562-07:00Thanks, that's interesting. I assume brewers ...Thanks, that's interesting. I assume brewers wouldn't allow bottles from other breweries to be sold in their own pubs?<br /><br />Chris Hansonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-83284377505610590242015-10-26T08:46:10.646-07:002015-10-26T08:46:10.646-07:00Curmudgeon,
my guess is that at many of the small...Curmudgeon,<br /><br />my guess is that at many of the smaller concerns sticking with cask was purely a financial decision. Keg beer required a substantial investment. You needed to buy a complete new set of barrels and new dispence equipment for every pub.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-24380777692015157862015-10-26T08:42:54.300-07:002015-10-26T08:42:54.300-07:00Chris,
if you look at the brewery annual reports ...Chris,<br /><br />if you look at the brewery annual reports I've been publishing you'll see that breweries were pushing bottled beer in the 1950's. It's the only area where sales were increasing. I think it got as high as 30-35% of pubs sales at its peak (don't quote me on those numbers).Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-22843699854514738532015-10-26T05:38:21.654-07:002015-10-26T05:38:21.654-07:00You mentioned how keeping beer fresh wasn't as...You mentioned how keeping beer fresh wasn't as difficult with keg beer, which makes me think of how that's also true with bottles. Why wasn't there a more agressive move to selling bottled beer in pubs? I realize there are some additional costs to bottling, but I assume there are also savings due to longer shelf life and fewer returns, and the need to rely on tenants being careful with the beer would be a lot lower with bottles. Landlords could dodge accusations of selling short pints, adulturation, and watering the beer.<br /><br />Was it just a cultural issue, where English pubgoers refused bottles? Or were there other economic issues involved?Chris Hansonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-8381585509554696352015-10-25T01:30:37.112-07:002015-10-25T01:30:37.112-07:00Good point that the survival of cask beer in Engla...Good point that the survival of cask beer in England and Wales in the years before CAMRA was largely due to brewery policy (albeit often just inertia) rather than customer demand.<br /><br />The free houses of that era were eager to put stuff like Younger's Tartan on - which was advertised as "worth passing a few pubs for".Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.com