tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post1043687736620624084..comments2024-03-28T06:20:10.699-07:00Comments on Shut up about Barclay Perkins: Refined sugar vs invert sugarRon Pattinsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-42876435638231995032017-09-26T17:15:16.078-07:002017-09-26T17:15:16.078-07:00I know it's been four years since the last com...I know it's been four years since the last comment, but for the archive ...<br /><br />An article was published in the August 1922 edition of The Journal of The Institute of Brewing on the subject of invert sugar. The author was, even at that time, speculating as to why invert sugar was preferred over raw or refined sugar. <br /><br />The most promising theory suggested that it was not the impurities in the sugar per se, but rather the effect of the excess acid required to invert the sugar in the presence of those impurities. This had the side effect of producing a range of unfermentable compounds - including sugars, caramels and malliard products. This is supported by Briggs (Malts and Malting, p560) which suggests Type1 Invert is typically 95% fermentable and Type3 is typically 91% fermentable.<br /><br />The upshot of all this is that brewer's invert will have the effect of adding non-fermentable sugars (and their derivatives) to the beer, whereas pure invert sugar will have the opposite effect of diluting those non-fermentables.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01713515836604040064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-53864332859894627482013-05-12T13:21:02.561-07:002013-05-12T13:21:02.561-07:00Thanks Ron, I guess I was thinking about typical U...Thanks Ron, I guess I was thinking about typical UK beers and the bitters/pale ales - I asked the question as I saw the use of syrup in a low abv AK beer (the Russells 1911), so it struck me as odd that that would work - I can see how it works in heavier Belgian beers. Perhaps it is wide spread in the UK and i just don't realise! I'd assumed it was a practice that had fallen out of favour here. I've just read one of your posts that mentions it was actually used to keep the body light (whereas intuitively I was expecting it to make a beer richer - but as you've said, that's really a feature of flavour, as opposed to body). I'll have to try brewing with it - thanks anyway for all the info.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04314505551713284553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-74590902565745986882013-05-12T12:55:44.526-07:002013-05-12T12:55:44.526-07:00Nicholas,
sugar wasn't used because it was c...Nicholas, <br /><br />sugar wasn't used because it was cheaper than malt. It wasn't always. The fact that several different sugars might be used in one beer make it clear that economy wasn't the only reason. If it had been, they would just have used the cheapest form of sugar.<br /><br />Using all malt, you won't get the same flavour. Brewing invert sugar has a surprisingly complex flavour.<br /><br />There are plenty of beer today with sugar syrup in them. Where do you think the colour comes from in dark Abbey and Trappist beers?Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-83205137530490970262013-05-12T07:32:18.165-07:002013-05-12T07:32:18.165-07:00Hi, is there a reason why so many of the old recip...Hi, is there a reason why so many of the old recipes used invert sugar as opposed to another source (eg as opposed to just more malt?). I'm trying to understand why it used to be common practice - so many of the recipes in the lets brew sessions seem to use it. I presume it must have been cutting down on the use of costly malt? I wonder if people nowadays would like the idea of syrup in their beer (i guess people are used to seeing honey beers), so how faithful a modern version of say an AK would be if the invert sugar was replaced with malt.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04314505551713284553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-10170726972547714402012-11-01T18:57:43.445-07:002012-11-01T18:57:43.445-07:00I just stirred up a hornet's nest in my club a...I just stirred up a hornet's nest in my club asking about beet sugars. I meant to search your blog later but the argument became heated :)<br /><br />Local Pro Eric Warner (wrote the Hefeweizen book) made a statement at the recent Dixie Cup competition to the effect that table sugar and Belgian Candi is the same stuff. After research into the sugar processing methods, it seems he is very correct. The difference in the British brewing sugars is the use of unbleached cane sugar. Love the impurities!<br /><br />You kick butt Ron, and you've made an indelible impression on me, such that now your blog is one of the first resources I go to for research. Thanks for all of your hard work!Andrew Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00261171596820050853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-1167805255837077582011-12-09T15:00:00.870-08:002011-12-09T15:00:00.870-08:00MentalDental,
I would agree. Many of the clear br...MentalDental,<br /><br />I would agree. Many of the clear brewing syrups do in fact result in a honey-like flavor in light Belgian ales like Golden Strong and Triples. In the States there is now Candi Syrup, Inc. (arguably a much superior brewing syrup to Dark Candi products, at least based on BJCP awards won to date and their reputation in the US among craft and home brewers).<br /><br />Mark WoolleridgeMark Wooleridgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-91965429702736349872009-06-02T02:58:22.610-07:002009-06-02T02:58:22.610-07:00Matt,
Golden syrup in partially inverted cane sug...Matt,<br /><br />Golden syrup in partially inverted cane sugar and Brewer's number 1 is fully inverted. The specs can be found on the Ragus web site (www.ragus.co.uk). Tate and Lyle's Golden Syrup is a product owed by Ragus, I think, so they should know.<br /><br />Getting hold of Brewer's sugar is difficult in the UK too but golden syrup is a reasonable substitute. They have similar flavours but to my taste there is an additional honey taste in the brewer's sugar.MentalDentalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-59021701656976004372009-06-01T08:02:59.012-07:002009-06-01T08:02:59.012-07:00That is why when I was brewing I always used honey...That is why when I was brewing I always used honey for this function as it is invert with all sorts of other interesting properties. Never enough to make the beer a braggot so much as to get the other effects.Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01670495301758701170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-36053607023312424022009-06-01T06:28:23.246-07:002009-06-01T06:28:23.246-07:00Golden syrup = brewing sugar #1.
I think I can sou...Golden syrup = brewing sugar #1.<br />I think I can source golden syrup here in the States.<br /><br />Any idea as to an equivalent for #3or most imporantly #3.Mattnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-86755808428681279132009-06-01T06:20:11.262-07:002009-06-01T06:20:11.262-07:00Interesting that they claim beet sugar to be unacc...Interesting that they claim beet sugar to be unacceptable. Dark Candi, Inc sells brewing sugars made from just that and I've had excellent results brewing Belgian inspired beers with their syrup. But at $9 per 1.5 lb I would still argue that its a waste of money even though I've been underwhelmed by homemade invert sugar from refined sugar. I will have to try using raw sugar and beet sugar.<br /><br />Sugar is a great topic, keep it up.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10751047204234528085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-81788902184887095392009-06-01T03:08:18.198-07:002009-06-01T03:08:18.198-07:00It doesn't surprise me that Ragus' No.1 invert sug...It doesn't surprise me that Ragus' No.1 invert sugar is basically the same as Martineau's. All four standard brewing sugars appear to have had a standard composition. You see different manufacturer's sugars used interchangeably.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5445569787371915337.post-21833494133460273132009-06-01T00:58:20.137-07:002009-06-01T00:58:20.137-07:00Interesting stuff.
Certainly Ragus' No 1 Invert s...Interesting stuff.<br /><br />Certainly Ragus' No 1 Invert sugar has a quite pronounced taste. A blend of golden syrup (unsurprisingly) and honey. It certainly adds more flavour than sucrose.<br /><br />Ron, when I spoke to the nice people at Ragus, after consultation with "Fred" who is one of these figures who has been with the company forever, they believe that their No 1 is identical with Martineau No 1, which seems to appear in the Whitbread logs quite often.MentalDentalnoreply@blogger.com